13 Brentford Rd
7:43 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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It's fucking idiotic and sums up what an idiotic place the world is becoming. Their energies and money would be better spent on getting people working.
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threesixty
7:21 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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Isn't this just inflationary?
If everyone has a certain amount of money, goods and services will just rise to swallow up that extra money.
I suppose you save of admin costs and means testing, so maybe that's where the think there is benefit.But in the long run you'll just be back to square one where people cant afford stuff and you need a benefit above the benefit you already have.
I think actually providing specific services is better. If you let everyone pay for there own stuff you wont be able to control the prices and things will get out of hand. People will also not spend on the right stuff.
If the government actuall procures these goods and services its far better. It will keep costs down and incentivise people to earn their own money and have their own choice if they want.
Giving cash is never a good idea tbh.
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devonhammer
7:11 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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Someone`s done some quick sums on what the equivalent might cost here :-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12037623/Paying-all-UK-citizens-155-a-week-may-be-an-idea-whose-time-has-come.html
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Mike Oxsaw
6:49 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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Infidel 6:22 Mon Dec 7
Absolute bollocks. All the government has to do is ensure tax income covers the cost. Exactly like it has to do at the moment.
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Infidel
6:22 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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Fantastic idea.
All the government needs is a magic money tree in the Prime Minister's garden and all Finland's problems are solved.
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Sniper
6:01 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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Do they have filthy chav scum in Finland?
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White Pony
5:44 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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I thought this was going to be a thread about Crowded House.
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Seamouse
5:43 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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How typical that a right wing Conservative Government stopped it, because it was solving poverty and everybody was happier.
MINCOME was an experimental Canadian basic income project that was held in Dauphin, Manitoba during the 1970s. The project, funded jointly by the Manitoba provincial government and the Canadian federal government under Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau. It was launched with a news release on February 22, 1974 under the NDP government of Edward Schreyer, and was closed down in 1979 under the Conservative government of Sterling Lyon and the federal Progressive Conservative Party of Joe Clark. The purpose of this experiment was to determine whether a guaranteed, unconditional annual income caused disincentive to work for the recipients, and how great such a disincentive would be.
It allowed every family unit to receive a minimum cash benefit. Participants who worked had their mincome supplement reduced by 50 cents for every dollar they earned by working.[1] The results showed an impact on labor markets, with working hours dropping one percent for men, three percent for married women, and five percent for unmarried women.[2] However, some have argued these drops may be artificially low because participants knew the guaranteed income was temporary.[3] These decreases in hours worked may be seen as offset by the opportunity cost of more time for family and education. Mothers spent more time rearing newborns, and the educational impacts are regarded as a success. Students in these families showed higher test scores and lower dropout rates. There was also an increase in adults continuing education.[4][5]
A final report was never issued, but Manitoban economist Evelyn Forget (/fɔrˈʒeɪ/) conducted an analysis of the program in 2009 which was published in 2011.[5][6] She found that only new mothers and teenagers worked substantially less. Mothers with newborns stopped working because they wanted to stay at home longer with their babies, and teenagers worked less because they weren't under as much pressure to support their families, which resulted in more teenagers graduating. In addition, those who continued to work were given more opportunities to choose what type of work they did. Forget found that in the period that Mincome was administered, hospital visits dropped 8.5 percent, with fewer incidents of work-related injuries, and fewer emergency room visits from car accidents and domestic abuse.[7] Additionally, the period saw a reduction in rates of psychiatric hospitalization, and in the number of mental illness-related consultations with health professionals
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mashed in maryland
5:36 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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But what if you pay less than 800 euro a month in tax?
I'm confused.
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Leonard Hatred
5:34 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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mim
No, I think it means if you work, you get your wages PLUS €800 from the state.
Is that right?
And where does this money come from?
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mashed in maryland
5:29 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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Imagine you were a self employed builder or something and had spent over a decade building up your reputation and company and are now able to charge top dollar for your hard work, and then all of a sudden one day the government tells you you're gonna be earning a grand a month no matter what, and to top it all, the bloke up the road who's never worked a day in his life and spends his dole on smack is gonna be getting the same as you.
I mean you just wouldn't fucking BOTHER would you???
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13 Brentford Rd
5:05 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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Ag ag.........Also causes housing and unfrastructure shortages and pushes up costs in those areas.
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Nurse Ratched
5:04 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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13BR 4.54
Such ideas are considered obsolete. In fact, it practically constitutes hate speech.
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mashed in maryland
5:02 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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Mike Oxsaw 4:16 Mon Dec 7
If that's honestly what it is then it must be the fucking stupidest idea ever.
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13 Brentford Rd
4:54 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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Surely the best way to cut social security costs would be to have more people already here in work?
Many that come here to do low paid jobs still need tax credits, housing benefit etc. and will add to the NHS costs on top.
I can't see how keeping 2m on benefits and then importing cheap labour to do jobs those here could do instead makes financial sense?
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Mike Oxsaw
4:39 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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It's least cost social security, Brents.
By default everybody gets the basic minimum to get by throughout their working life, whatever ills befall them. They then want or think they deserve a big fuck-off TV, Sky & 40 fags a day they then need to go out and earn enough to pay for such luxuries.
The government can slash vast areas of administration and say "Look, we've given you enough to survive so if you choose to piss it up the wall there's no come-back on us."
Takes out at a stroke a multitude of (politically driven) arguments and works on more levels than just the bleedin' obvious.
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Darby_
4:35 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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It'll be an interesting experiment.
The aim is to encourage MORE people to work.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/finland-to-pay-every-citizen-1100-per-month-and-scrap-all-other-benefits-in-effort-to-reduce-unemployment-rate
"Detractors caution that a basic income would remove people’s incentive to work and lead to higher unemployment. Those in favour point to previous experiments where a basic income has been successfully trialled. The Canadian town of Dauphin experimented with a basic income guarantee in the Seventies and the results – both social and economic – were largely positive."
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13 Brentford Rd
4:29 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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I'm all ears Mike?
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Mike Oxsaw
4:28 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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13 Brentford Rd 4:22 Mon Dec 7
Try thinking outside of YOUR box. You might learn something
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13 Brentford Rd
4:22 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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Why should people be given money for doing fuck all?
I have a radical idea, why not try instead to get everyone onto employment and don't let millions of immigrants in to do a job an unemployed person could do?
So carazy and out the box but you never know.........
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Mike Oxsaw
4:16 Mon Dec 7
Re: Radical thinking from the Finns...
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mashed - that's the way I see it, but I suspect they've built it in such a way that only those holding or eligible for a Finnish passport can qualify.
Everybody gets enough for 1 beer a week and if they want more they have to go and earn it.
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